“It was a bit like being in a runaway train,” says Professor Marion Koopmans, on the early days of the Covid-19 pandemic. As one of the Netherland’s leading virologists, and part of the Dutch Outbreak Management Team, she had been learning and preparing for this type of disease for years.

But having some influence on the outcome was not just a question of epidemiology and biology, but also of exploring the friction between politics and science.

We spoke to Marion about fighting this pandemic, and the next one, as we take a walk around Het Park in Rotterdam overlooking the Erasmus Medical Centre.

Listen to this episode as a podcast.